From Wikisource

Edit(+) / Seite bearbeiten(+) / Modifier(+) / Pagina bewerken (+) / Düzenle (+) / Изменить (+) See Scriptoria in other language sub-domains:

Català:La taverna - Česky:U pramene - Dansk:Skriptoriet - Deutsch:Skriptorium - En:Scriptorium - Español:Café - suomeksi:Kahvihuone - Français:Scriptorium - עברית:מזנון - Italiano:Bar - Nederlands:De kroeg - Polski:Skryptorium - Português:Esplanada - Русский:Форум - Türkçe:Köy çeşmesi 中文:写字间

Contents 1 Notices 1.1 Wikisource project pages 1.2 Separate discussions 1.2.1 Logo 1.2.2 Languages 1.2.3 Archives 2 Your Scriptorium 2.1 Template:InterLingvLigoj 2.2 Page: namespace, status of pages 2.3 Copyright clarifications from Mike Godwin 2.4 linking to article from Wikipedia 2.5 Linking to specific language's main page from menu 2.6 DoubleWiki alignment and different header templates 2.7 Middle Dutch / Middel Neerlants 2.8 Template:InterLingvLigoj 2.9 Move of main wikisource 2.9.1 interwiki oldwikisource 2.10 import 2.11 Admin 2.12 Recover logo 2.13 Import 2 2.14 ko.wikisource have 1,000+ 2.15 Interwiki 2.16 Category Question 2.17 Stable Versions 2.18 Yiddish 2.19 good job 2.20 100.000 pages 2.21 How to handle such ideas 2.21.1 Remarks to languages and orthography 2.22 Statistics 2.23 Open armed welcome 2.24 Wikisource bots 2.25 Pre-1923 works that are public domain in the USA but still copyrighted in their home countries 2.26 Errata policy 2.27 Source text in multiple languages 2.28 Can you import some texts from it? 2.29 Disconnected from global login 2.30 Quotes 2.31 desysops 2.32 Email on page changes 2.33 The quality and counting of subdomains 2.34 New subdomain, moving pages 2.35 Subdomain again 2.36 Chinese Wikisource adopting Proofread Page 2.37 Spanish Wikisource adopting Proofread Page 2.38 Wikisource translations 2.39 proposal to unify the Index and Page namespaces 2.40 English language on Thai wiki 2.41 Welcome image 2.42 Bugs and Butterflys 2.43 Author namespace 2.44 Proofread Page on oldwikisource 2.45 enable subpages in main namespace on all subdomains 2.46 Copyright of the logo?

[edit] Notices

[edit] Wikisource project pages

• What is Wikisource?
• Wikisource and Wikibooks
• Votes
• Statistics
• Copyright
• Possible copyright violations
• Proposed deletions
• Cataloging
• Wikisource and Project Gutenberg
• Languages - see below

[edit] Separate discussions

Verschobene Diskussionen / Discussions déplacées / verschoven besprekingen / 移动的讨论 / Discussioni spostate

[edit] Logo

• Wikisource:Logo
• Wikisource:New_Wikisource_logo

[edit] Languages

• Language policy
• Language domain requests
• Language domain requests/Rules for voting
• List of Wikisource Languages (=Main Page)

The language domain vote (over now):

• New vote on language subdomains (vote has concluded)
• New discussion on language subdomains (vote has concluded)

[edit] Archives

Archive / 存檔 / Archivi (oldest first)

• m:Wikisource (Pre-launch discussions)
• November 2003 to January 2004
• Feb 2004 - Jun 2004
• Jul 2004 - Oct 2004
• Oct 2004 - Feb 2005
• Feb 2005 - Apr 2005
• Apr 2005 - Aug 2005
• Aug 2005 - Sep 2005 (through the move to language subdomains)
• Sep 2005 - Jan 2006 (months following the move language subdomains)
• Jan 2006 - Dec 2006
• Jan 2007 - Dec 2007

Note: all archives are made by copy&paste, so that the whole history is here.

===========================================

[edit] Your Scriptorium

[edit] Template:InterLingvLigoj

There are many "add language" requests in the discussion page of this protected template. Can an admin take a look please? Thanks, Malafaya 23:09, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Page: namespace, status of pages

I have made changes to the Proofreadpage software, that will allow users to visualize the status of all pages of a book, using colors, on the index page. A preview can be seen on fr:s:Livre:Jules Vallès - L'Enfant.djvu. This system works in combination with a new validation procedure, that is following the system used at de.ws. The new validation procedure requires that two different users proofread a page, and it is described here: fr:s:Aide:Qualité des pages. There are 4 levels: 'Not proofread' (the default), 'Problematic', 'Proofread', 'Validated'. The button corresponding to 'validated' will not show up if the page has not been previously marked as 'Proofread' by another user than the one doing the validation. (this works by storing the name of proofreaders in the template, as can be seen here). The former 'Incomplete' level has been dropped, because it is not useful when describing single pages.

This new system will soon be available in all subdomains. The names of the different quality levels can be modified by sysops using system messages. It will also be possible to disable the system if a subdomain does agree with the idea of double proofreading. Feedback is welcome.

ThomasV 17:03, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright clarifications from Mike Godwin

Two clarifications on copyright concerns have come down from the WMF counsel

1. Copyright regarding public speeches
2. Status of the "rule of the shorter term" in the US

Please spread this information to any subdomains which are confused on these issues.--BirgitteSB 19:09, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Anthere has made a clarification on it, see here 555 19:36, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] linking to article from Wikipedia

Hi, there

Linking to different Wikimedia-projects are easy enough when they have their own subdomain, but how should I, for instance, link to Wet op basiese diensvoorwaardes 75 van 1997 here, from the Afrikaans Wikipedia? (Other than using a complete url.) 217.149.199.35 11:28, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

with [[oldwikisource:Wet op basiese diensvoorwaardes 75 van 1997]] 201.93.196.132 12:49, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the quick reply (and the info of course!). Anrie 15:07, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Linking to specific language's main page from menu

Is it at all possible to have something similar to the Commons' MediaWiki:Welcome-url/af, that will, when a registered user has selected Afrikaans as his prefered language in the preferences section, the "Main page"-link in the right-hand menu (which then says "Tuisblad") will link to Main Page:Afrikaans? Also, is it required that this (Main Page:Afrikaans) is where the main page must be located? Why can't http://wikisource.org/wiki/Tuisblad be used?

Just some things I have been pondering... Anrie 13:07, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] DoubleWiki alignment and different header templates

DoubleWiki matches paragraphs "assuming that both pages have the same structure (paragraphs and titles)". But a problem arises if the first item in that structure is a header template and the header templates in the two languages are of different types. (English, Portugese, Polish, et al. use one type of header; Latin, French, Italian, et al. use another; there may be others.)

It seems either DoubleWiki should handle this, or header templates should be standardized.

Some careful tweaks can work around the problem, but the tweaks are the kind whose purpose is not obvious. They could easily get blown away by a future editor.

See s:Novum Organum/Book I Click <=> to see a side-by-side Latin original. Now look at the wiki source for the English page. There is a blank line before the header template. Remove it and DoubleWiki's side-by-side paragraphing breaks. --Mccaskey 01:50, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

I've run into this a few times, and there are a few options that have come to mind:

1. the header and all leading whitespace should be taken from the host wiki (i.e. en) and discarded from the "other wiki" (i.e. la)
2. like suggestion #1, new tags could be added to allow control over what wikitext is included in the side-by-side view
3. tags are added to allow the two sides to be synced. i.e. <sync name="para1"/> would be added to both en and la in the correct spot, and DoubleWiki resyncs the two at that location.

John Vandenberg 00:19, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm now putting

<div title="End of header" />

at the end of headers. It alone doesn't sync the header but does sync everything below it. I then put

&nbsp;<!-- For DoubleWiki syncing. -->

at the top of the en pages. It's a hack, but it works and adding the comments will probably keep someone from removing the hackware. --Mccaskey 23:51, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

If this works reliably, that voodoo could/should be added at the bottom of the header templates on all languages. John Vandenberg 07:55, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree that this extension is too sensitive to document structure

the markers it uses should be more explicit

i don't have much time to fix it at the moment, but if someone comes with a sensible solution, let him go ahead

ThomasV 09:34, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Middle Dutch / Middel Neerlants

Just a thought. The Middle Dutch section is just small, and since the Dutch Wikisource has quite a few Middle Dutch sources, wouldn't be more efficient integrating the Middle Dutch section into the Dutch Wikisource? Middel Dutch was a form of Dutch spoken in the Middle Ages.
Bye bye, JosN 19:13, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

No, it's a distinct language sharing elements derived from Early English and it will become in time Flemish. The Dutch Wikisource should attribute these texts accurately - please contact the [Ruusbroec School of the University of Antwerp] if in doubt.

[edit] Template:InterLingvLigoj

There are many "add language" requests in the discussion page of this protected template. Can an admin take a look please? Thanks, 87.14.59.4 15:50, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Done, --LadyInGrey 22:12, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Move of main wikisource

It has come to my attention that wikisource is the only wiki that has an actual wiki on the main page. Other wikis use a portal:

• http://www.wikipedia.org
• http://www.wikinews.org
• http://www.wikibooks.org
• http://www.wikiquote.org
• http://www.wiktionary.org
• http://www.wikiversity.org

Wikisource is using the main domain like an incubator, which is perfectly fine and this request is not conflicting this.

What I propose is that wikisource.org be moved to beta.wikisource.org or multiligual.wikisource.org or (type something here).wikisource.org and wikisource.org itself becomes a portal like every other wiki.

http://www.wikiversity.org also has an incubator and its http://beta.wikiversity.org

I hope this makes sense.

-- Cat ^chi? 00:04, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

"beta" is definitely not the right name. "mul" for multilingual would be acceptable. see meta:Requests for new languages/Wikibooks Multilingual. John Vandenberg 00:12, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Thats fine. mul.wikisource.org makes more sense than beta. -- Cat ^chi? 00:52, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

The question is not whether having an actual wiki for the portal is like the other projects (it is not) but rather whether its functionality is better or worse. I think the history since 2005 shows that having the portal as a wiki-page at a live wiki has served it well, and it is better maintained, more aesthetic, more up-to-date and more useful than are the portals for the other projects.

Being identical to the other portals is less important than simply being well-done, which the other portals are not. The other generic portals show only the top-ten languages prior to the seachbar, ours shows all of them in an organized fashion, even those without their own domain. Ours provides links to information about the project and all of its various languages. (Ours does not currently provide the "search" bar, but it is not clear how useful this really is, plus it compounds the language problem by providing the word "search" only in the largest languages.)

As for putting it into a domain, there is a certain logic to that, though to my mind it isn't crucial one way or the other. It seems that "mul.wikisource.org" could work, or perhaps another code, if anyone thinks of something better. It might even help with interwiki links to this wiki. The only crucial thing is to make sure that the ":oldwikisource:" link to here still works, as it has already been used in thousands of places.

Another idea that just occurred to me is that even if a static portal were set to "wikisource.org" it could be mirrored anyway at the main page of this wiki. Furthermore, perhaps "wikisource.org" (non-wiki page) could mirror the code here, and then you have the best of all worlds: (1) "wikisource.org" matches the other projects; (2) the main-page portal is still maintained in live wiki fashion at a live Wikisource wiki; (3) the main multilingual page remains truly multilingual (as opposed to beta.wikiversity.org, for instance, which is in English). Dovi 09:10, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

The way things are at Wikisource has worked well for several years. This seems to be a good place to invoke, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Uniformity with other sister projects is not essential for this. Eclecticology 19:04, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

That's totally fine with me too. I was just mulling over the ideas of the others. Dovi 04:12, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

It is broken though. :oldwikisource: is hard coded so it would work regardless. The main page would become your standard portal every other edition of wikimedia projects use. beta.wikiversity.org is a sub domain unlike www.wikiversity.org. I recently updated the www.wikinews.org template on meta. It is not something very hard to do.

The main page of mul.wikibooks.org could be the big ten of projects within mul.wikibooks.org in other word the largest 10 project in mul.wikibooks would be listed. Crossing the 100+ barrier would have more of a meaning.

-- Cat ^chi? 07:03, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

What meaning would that be? Eclecticology 08:27, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Dovi : (Ours does not currently provide the "search" bar, but it is not clear how useful this really is, plus it compounds the language problem by providing the word "search" only in the largest languages.). Why not an icon to indicate search ? An image wouldn't involve any language.- --Zephyrus 09:52, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree that recognizable icons would be a much nicer solution than multiple translations for numerous pages that are supposedly multilingual but are not really fully so. But since I'm not great with graphics I've never actually tried implementation. To Cat: As for "crossing barriers," it seems to me that the point of the current page is to encourage all languages by making them feel welcome, even those with low numbers or without a subdomain. And what exactly is broken?Dovi 20:50, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Technical query: If the other portals show templates found on meta, then could a wikisource.org portal show the code found on the main page here? Dovi 20:53, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

The image might be something like this.- --Zephyrus 12:25, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Is that how it's done on the other portals, with a static image? For some reason I thought that when the code for a portal is changed on Meta, its corresponding portal is updated automatically. Dovi 18:47, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, if we change something, the change must be made on Meta. Do you wish that I do that ? Other people can do it far better than I; but I can do it if it is useful or necessary and if nobody else has time.- --Zephyrus 08:18, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Dovi and Ec here: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Yann 09:49, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

I know this one: "Never change a running system", :-), -jkb- 11:27, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, if it is neither necessary nor useful I won't change anything :) - --Zephyrus 17:53, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree that we shouldn't do anything with this. It ain't broke, so no need to fix it. Besides, WS is a bit unique: it hosts texts in languages that don't have their subdomain, unlike any other project (save, maybe, for the wikiversity, where beta serves its purpose, but there is no reason to name this a beta site). --Dungodung 14:22, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] interwiki oldwikisource

Wikipedia, Wikinews, Wikibooks, Wikiquote, Wiktionary, Wikiversity were all started with separate language subdomains, but Wikisource was not. I came to Wikisource and became an admin here before voting for or against breaking language subdomains away. I did not vote while I was unsure of the impact of this site, but I adapted to the consensus including requesting Chinese Wikisource. Being consistent with these six Wiki projects is not the most important. As long as this site still runs well, I do not consider moving this main Wikisource site needed. However, I wonder if anyone can allow the display of interlanguage links on the navigation bar like on language subdomains.--Jusjih 03:03, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Hello,

Interwiki links do not work here like on subdomains. This is a bug since the creation of subdomains. Yann 21:05, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Note that they do work for beta.wikiverity.org. Has a bug ever been filed for this? Dovi 18:57, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I think it was mentioned to the developers, but I am sure that a bug was filled in Bugzilla. Yann 19:05, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I cannot find it. But I would strongly support a bug on this matter. -jkb- 20:07, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] import

Special:Import has a source "sa". Does anyone know off hand what "sa" is ? I have requested the ability to import from meta and commons. John Vandenberg 05:54, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I can't find where the special page was edited, but there was some talk in the archives about importing from the Sanskrit Wikipedia. I suspect that this is an obsolete element, and can probably be removed. Eclecticology 20:03, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

As a Meta steward, I can tell that only Meta stewards may add or remove any Wikimedia users' importing rights. If you want to import from any Wiki sites, I would like to suggest using Wikisource:Administrators to request importing right here.--Jusjih 21:24, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

bugzilla:13377 was resolved, but the new transwiki sources were not added as far as I can see. I have reopened the bug.

I dont not understand how users' importing rights comes into this; Special:Import allows me to transwiki from other wikis, and Special:Log/import shows that I have been able to do this successfully already. see Special:ListGroupRights, which says that all admins here have transwiki capabilities.

The ability to import from "file" is a separate capability, and I guess it cant hurt to have admins able to do this. --John Vandenberg 23:08, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Admin

If I can help fighting vandals, I can be an admin here. I am one already on fr.wiksource and on wikilivres, so I know the tools.- --Zephyrus 20:10, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

you have been appointed as a sysop ThomasV 13:56, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, ThomasV. Thank you all.- --Zephyrus 15:06, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Recover logo

Hi, some years ago I have created a proposal of logo for Wikisource [1]. The logo has been deleted. It's possible to recover it to upload it in Commons? The link probably is: [2]. --Ilario 13:11, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Image:Wikisource logo ilario.png has been restored. Please leave a note here or on my talk when you have transferred it to commons. John Vandenberg 07:42, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Deleted again, it is OK, see User talk:Ilario + User talk:-jkb-#Thank you, -jkb- 08:02, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Once again, this request has been solved on 25th March by uploading it on commons on the same day, then I deleted the image here. But obviously Illario did asked more people to recover it without having given us a message that it is OK. So, do not recover the image here again. -jkb- 16:44, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

OK, fine. Yann 06:12, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Import 2

I wonder if the transwiki import is in function. I tried to transwiki something from the cs.source and it did not succeed, I got the message Import failed: Could not open import file. I tried it with some more pages, different namespaces. The same. The transwiki import from en.source is OK. -jkb- 20:02, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I tried the transwiki with some other domains (de.source, sk.source ...), I have got the same problem. -jkb- 20:26, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I have applied for importing here at Wikisource:Administrators but no one has supported or opposed my application so far. If you want, I can nominate you and with community approval, I will report it to Meta so any steward will grant such a privilege.--Jusjih 02:01, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi Jusjih. Probably I did not get something well. My experience from cs.source is that if the import is approved (i.e. there are some domains in the transwiki table) then every admin can use it. Here on oldwikisource there is a teble with all wikisource domains, so I assumed it is OK. If not so I support naturally your request fully as it is necessary sometimes. See also Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/Jan 2007 - Dec 2007#Transwiki - Importing data. Thanks. -jkb- 10:05, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Being an administrator is separate from being able to import. As a Meta steward and an admin on 11 Wiki sites, I have importing rights on English Wikiquote, Chinese Wikisource, and Chinese Wiktionary, but not other 8 sites. We have only one user with importing privilege by file uploading, but no user with transwikiing privilege, so if anyone is interested I will be willing to nominate you, then after community support I will report to Meta to have any disinterested steward to promote. The importing table that we have here is separate from the importing privilege.--Jusjih 00:59, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi. First, I spoke here about import-transwiki, not import-upload. And I reported according my experiences on the cs.source. The transwiki feature is open to all admins there, and moreover, every admin can transwiki from every domain which is in the transwiki table (like here on the page Special:Import). I have tried it just now once more. Therefore I was wandering that I cannot transwiki here although the cs.source is in the table. Sure, I do not mind if I can or I cannot transiwki from the venetian wikiquote, but I zhought it should be possible to transiwki from cs.source etc. by the way: the transwiki privilege you are speaking about is something else: it is the additional privilege to use transwiki for non-admins. If you have lokk at the same page on the cs.source [3], so you will find no user there, but anyway, every admin can do transwiki there. Ehm, so, waht to do?? -jkb- 11:59, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

By the way: who is responsible for the import-upload rights??? Since one year there is somebody in the import-upload-privilege-table on the cs.source - see [4] - without that somebody told me about it or asked me about it or anounced it. Anyway, I am the only one bureaucrat there. -jkb- 12:06, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Based on what I know, apparently only a steward but not a bureaucrat can add or drop someone's import-upload right. I am less familiar with the transwiki privilege.--Jusjih 02:39, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

I now have the importing privilege. I would like to know how to apply the transwiki privilege.--Jusjih 01:04, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

As far as I can remember I requested it for the cs.source on the bugzilla pages. -jkb- 07:00, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] ko.wikisource have 1,000+

ko.wikisource have 1,000+ articles now :) -- WonRyong 11:36, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Updated, see: Template:Wikisource languages, --LadyInGrey 15:40, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Interwiki

How i can in a language sites add a interwiki to here? The syntax [[oldwikisource:Hans Christian Andersen]] (Volapük) does not works... -- Sergey kudryavtsev 10:03, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

The link works, but it is not display in the left margin. That's a bug that exists since the subdomains were created. Yann 10:19, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Hello, i am glad to see you again, Yann! This is exactly a bug (not a behaviour by design)? Can you give me a MediaZilla link? -- Sergey kudryavtsev 11:45, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi Sergey, Where I think it is a bug, even if the developers intended it works this way. I don't know if it is mentioned in Bugzilla. Yann 11:48, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

I think like you too. We are should have a way to supply inter-wiki links to a exotic language works, which stored here. -- Sergey kudryavtsev 13:57, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Is this bug № 4758? -- Sergey kudryavtsev 14:03, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

No, this is about something else. Yann 17:54, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

This is a long standing problem that should have been solved but never solved. This prevents us from linking Unuiĝintaj Nacioj Ĝenerala Asembleo Rezolucio 505 (in Esperanto) with Chinese, English, and French versions. :-( --Jusjih 03:06, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Wow. Do you mean this one? I know about the problem with iw, but not about the reason. I assumed a technical one. Not this. -jkb- 09:59, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I have meant that resolution. When I became interested in that, I added Chinese, English, and French versions here, then they were moved to language subdomains. There is no Esperanto Wikisource, so the problem that we talk about here makes linking to and from this site more difficult. By the way, do we allow contributions to make their original translations here?--Jusjih 02:18, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Category Question

Now I know that each page must be categorised in a language category, but do all of it's subpages need to be categorised too? --Cradel 12:12, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes. When creating a new subdomain, it is easier to export/import the pages. And, secondly, uncategorized pages irritate many users. -jkb- 14:24, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

What about redirects ? --Cradel 16:55, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

That's quite bad. Categories cannot be redirected - you have change everything by your own (or a bot). -jkb- 17:02, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I meant, do redirects have to be categorised --Cradel 21:08, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh. It seems I have made a faux pas... OK: I recommend to categorize quite all pages, not only articles in the namespace, but really all ones, then we know to which language they belong and can delete them after move to another subdomain. Otherwise there will be a chaos here - see how many languages are working here. Zhanks, regards, -jkb- 08:36, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Sure, no problem --Cradel 10:14, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Categorize the redirects, that way, when they are moved to their own domain, the redirects already created will transfer over, and that's just one less piece of work the new subdomain has to take care of.—Zhaladshar ^(Talk) 15:58, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Stable Versions

Is there any Wikisource that has teste the stable versions feature yet? It was discussed some time ago on Text integrity that the now-existing-and-available MediaWiki extension could help to flag pages. -- JakobVoss 01:26, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

I know only the discussion on en.wource (see also en:Wikisource:Scriptorium#FlaggedRevisions), de.source had talk about it shortly with the result no interest (see s:de:Wikisource:Skriptorium#Flagged Revisions). The cs.source will not use it as far as I can judge. -jkb- 07:08, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Yiddish

Is there some way to tag the two articles in Category:ייִדיש so that they can be moved to the Yiddish Wikisource? I wonder why they didn't get moved when it was created. Angr/Talk 18:05, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes. See User talk:Dovi#to be moved to he. He could know the way. -jkb- 18:10, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't know much about tagging or moving articles between wikis. But I understand that is the correct way to do it in order to preserve page histories. Maybe it would be best to simply tag the category and the articles, and when someone knows how, let them do it. Dovi 08:19, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] good job

Does somebody knows what the Persian Wikisource is doing? Three days ago it was No 31 with 1407 pages ([5]), now it is No 11 with 11.380 pages. Should we learn? -jkb- 13:59, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Looks like they have a bot [6] doing pretty heavy work. Dovi 06:24, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Well they are No 9 in our top ten and the Polish WS is out. -jkb- 07:55, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 100.000 pages

In the last months there has been a significant inrease in the use of ProofreadPage, and today the total number of pages in the proofreading namespace across all domains has reached the 100.000 milestone.

I would like to congratulate all those who have been involved in this accomplishment. Together, we are changing the nature of Wikisource, moving it to a higher standard of quality and reliability.

I would like to take this opportunity to invite all contributors to upload scans of their sources, and not just text. Providing scans is not only a way to improve collaborative proofreading; it is also an end in itself, because it makes our work trustable.

ThomasV 09:42, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Agree, and congratulations. With the PP extension you have provided one of the most important tools for the success of Wikisource.

I would like to point out that other ways of insuring quality are also available. In Hebrew, where we are not able to use "Proofread Page" because of the RTL environment, we have started to simply provide automatic links to scans found at the Commons, such as here where the link is found in the second line of the navigation template. In the end this proved better for our purposes anyway, because most of the projects we are working on are cited by chapter or section, not by page (they have usually appeared in numerous editions with different pagination). Loading them initially by page and subsequently combining the pages into chapters would also have involved far more work and severely hampered progress.

Furthermore, we are implementing "Flagged Revisions," which ensures quality in a different way that "Proofread Page" and is in my opinion no less important. (E.g. we had vandalism on the Wikisource page here today that took many hours before I removed it. With FR this worry disappears. Even in wikis with lots of people patrolling, vandalism can and does get by.) I would like to suggest FR be implemented here at wikisource.org. Dovi 09:57, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] How to handle such ideas

I am really not sure how to handle the creation of main pages for languages that are strongly ambivalent like the new creations here:

• Главная страница: Русскій языкъ - Russian, written in the spelling before the spelling reformation of 1918, see also User talk:Sasha1506
• Main Page:Полски - which is supposed to be Polish written in cyrillic ("new form of the Polish language, which I made fit into the Cyrillic script")

We should have some guidelines for this, such as an ISO number, existing Wikipedia etc. -jkb- 07:34, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

is the old russian refused at ru.ws ? ThomasV 11:21, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't think we have any reason to be strict about this. Let people create texts in whatever they want and choose whatever code they think is appropriate. If as time goes on they add serious material and attract new contributors great. If not nothing is lost. In any case creations like this probably will never meet any guidelines for getting a subdomain, but that is not our problem. In the meantime let them add whatever texts they want. (By the way, at the Incubator these kinds of things are allowed as tests, but they will never get domains.) Dovi 13:09, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Comment from ru.ws: a russian text in old spelling is allowed in ru.ws (e.g. see s:ru:Как постепенно дошли люди до настоящей арифметики). -- Sergey kudryavtsev 08:31, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

First, I agree that we should show some tolerant point of view. no problem with that. But here it seems to be something else (and I remember the discussions on an old English slang or whatever, which then went to en.source). The Russian is not another language, it is still the Russian, but written with some two or three special letters that have been cancelled after 1917. In fact the place for such texts is the ru.source. - - - The second one, Polish in cyrillic, is even more ambivalent: as you can read on the main page Main Page:Полски, somebody is creating this just now. Polish has never been written in cyrilic. Thus, I am not sure what impact it will have on people who have a look here to see what we have. Sure, testing is testing, but... And, it should be clear for everybody who see such a page that it is testing - not a serious language collection. Soon we have here people with Chinese texts written in Arabian and so on. Therefore I think there should have some rules or principles, very benevolent, not rigorous, but ... -jkb- 14:13, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, any text as it was published is fine, even if the langage has changed since the publication. However Polish written in Cyrillic is like a constructed langage, so I think it has no place here. Yann 16:29, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree with what Dovi has said about existing languages; I agree with Yann's opinion about a language which doesn't exist.- --Zephyrus 17:32, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to explain shortly my intention when speaking about the Russian in the old spelling. The texts can be edited here or elsewhere, that is true. But if the texts fit the ru.source (and I think they do), so it would have some more positive sides: the users would learn from the just beginning the community, the environment and the rules of the subdomain. Later imports are more problematic. Therefore, I gues, the question of ThomasV - see above - should be answered first. -jkb- 16:29, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I have moved Main Page:Полски to User:IlStudioso/Полски and deleted the redirect.

I think that the Russian Wikisource project is the best place to put older forms of Russian, inc. Category:Old Church Slavonic. I have asked s:ru:User:Innv to help us out.

I have started developing "Wikisource:Languages", where I hope to list all languages on all Wikisource projects, telling contributors where works in each languages should be added. e.g. Old English goes on English Wikisource, in category s:Category:Old English works. We still have Beowulf and The Lords Prayer here. John Vandenberg 23:33, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

John Vandenberg 23:33, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, some two weeks ago I saw somewhere the message, that the Russian Wikisource accepts pages in Old Russian. Now I cannot find it, and there seem to be some difficulties with users in the subdomain. In the meantime the contributions here continue. I sked the Russian subdomain once again on a page that could be something like scriptorium (Викитека:Форум), I hope :-). -jkb- 15:49, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I repeat my comment above: a russian text in old spelling (before the reformation of 1918) is allowed in ru.ws (e.g. see s:ru:Как постепенно дошли люди до настоящей арифметики). A reading such text is very easy for a native speakers. But a spellcheck and a grammatical writing demands a special linguistic knowledge. Therefore a contributors with such skills welcomed on Russian Wikisource. -- Sergey kudryavtsev 08:31, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I see where it is now ... Now we have it twice here at least, so it is certain. :-) Thanks for the hint. -jkb- 08:28, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, of course these texts could be included and form a department inside of the Russian Wikisource. However it also could be kept separately for the reason "not creating a mess". Dmitrismirnov 11:16, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Remarks to languages and orthography

Well, I see the Old Russian Pages are growing here. I will not mind. But in fact it could be important fot the future. Therefore some remarks. Dmitrismirnov, when you say "texts could be included and form a department inside of the Russian Wikisource", so then the next argument from you "However it also could be kept separately" is not quite OK. Let us see the situation: no language, and I mean no language exists without changes. Following your arguments about mess the Germans could exclude all text written by Goethe or Heine (they do not follow the present orthography) or text written by Swiss authors, the Czechs clould exclude all text written before 19th century (there is a very great and odd difference in the writing), maybe the English Wikisource could exclude Shakespeare and others. First, it would obviously be a nonsence. Secondly, when you separate or divide the documents or literature of one language by this way you cannot, I repeat you cannot show the broad richness of a language's literature. And, you cannot offer the reader two or three different copies of the same work just to compare them. And this is also one of the mean goals of Wikisource. It is no mess when you have different orthographies of one language in one subdomain. In contrary, the collection of the documents could be even better. And, last but not least, I do not expect that Old Russian could ever get an own subdomain. Sooner or later you will have to move the text to the Russian Wikisource. And then, it will be very new for you to cooperate there. The best would be to go to the subdomain now, to learn their wiki rules and to develop a good rules to cooperate. But it is up to you. Regards, -jkb- 10:45, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I have seen the increase in Old Russian here, and dont mind whether it is here or on Russian Wikisource. I created Wikisource:Languages with the goal of recording where old languages should be added; e.g. Old English should go on English Wikisource, but there are still a few Old English pages here. I think Old Russian fits on Russian Wikisource better, for the reasons that -jkb- says, but there are other Slavonic languages which are also no longer used by modern people; we should also discuss where they should go, so that we have a clear picture of what should go where. Dmitrismirnov is a sysop on Russian Wikisource. I think Russian Wikisource sysops need to discuss this with us here. John Vandenberg 00:27, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. But I do not think that this is a very simple problem that has a very easy solution. So we will discuss this in the Russian Wikisourse. Dmitrismirnov 17:21, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

After the discussion at the Russian Wikisource Forum s:ru:Викитека:Форум#Русскій языкъ, it seems that we tend to move this section to the Russian Wikisource, but this will take some time. Until now I moved only 2 files and marked them here for deletion. Regards Dmitrismirnov 17:23, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Dmitrismirnov OK, and thanks for the message. How ever you decide so it will be. But, however, before you start moving the pages from here to there, please be sure that the pages will not be moved by copy+pasting, but better by transwikiing etc. Do you have somebody who can import from here to the ru.source??? Regards, -jkb- 18:32, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

I have no idea how to do this (transwikiing etc). I need your help in this. At the moment I move them by copy+pasting. Dmitrismirnov 00:52, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Statistics

How do you get statistics for a language category (test-project) here, like the number of articles --Cradel 16:09, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Try {{PAGESINCATEGORY:category}}, -jkb- 16:15, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

While on the topic of statistics, there are fresh statistics at stats.wikimedia.org. For example, here is the page count. John Vandenberg 23:06, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Open armed welcome

Hello!

Same template with another image, in order to have a welcome template different from the one in en.wikisource, what do you think, do you agree? I have looked for an image with open arms, but what I have found is open wings, do you think they would suit the purpose?- --Zephyrus 06:45, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

The image itself is nice, no doubt, but I am not sure if it fits the sake. Might be something like two shaking hand? -jkb- 13:49, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Would this one do? - --Zephyrus 16:42, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, after I have seen some categorie on commons like commons:Category:Handshakes in art, I think something like this. Yes. But probably it would be better to make the background transparent. -jkb- 20:59, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Like this? Or do you prefer this one? We can see interesting possibilities here too.- --Zephyrus 18:42, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wikisource bots

Hi to all. I would like to activate the beeing bots in the different subdomains and to increase their activity. As someones would recall some months ago there has been some problems with a bot (also on some wikinews domains etc.), claiming interwiki on wikisource is completely the same like on wikipedia, no experience or language practice is necessary etc. And now, meta introduced their global bots. As I still am sure that interwiki making on Wikisoruce is something very different and a general experience with Wikisource is a must, I would like to address those of us who have a bot: when making interwiki on your own subdomain, make more of them and do the same in other ones. For instance, Zumg visites cs.spurce from time to time and it is OK, some users make interwiki manually etc. Let us concentrate this jibe in the future. My suggestion. -jkb- 10:26, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pre-1923 works that are public domain in the USA but still copyrighted in their home countries

When Wikisource was opened to accept texts in all languages, we did not have a very clear copyright policy. After language subdomains were opened, different policies and guidelines have been developed. Hosting pre-1923 works that are public domain in the USA (possibly except in the 9th Circuit) but still copyrighted in their home countries is accepted on English Wikisource. However, I would like to discuss this issue while Japanese Wikisource is unwilling to host such a kind of works. For example, Japanese Wikisource has a deletion request about the Japanese lyrics of the Internationale that are still copyrighted in Japan (life + 50 years) even if being pre-1923. We once had them here at インターナショナル until moved to Japanese Wikisource.

As this Multilingual Wikisource site is no longer heavily used once language subdomains have broken away, I would like to suggest hosting pre-1923 works that are public domain in the USA but still copyrighted in their home countries, at this site if the corresponding language subdomains are unable to host them for the sake of their users. If there are no considerable objections to my thought, the 1922 version of the Japanese Internationale by Ōmi Komaki who died in 1978 may be hosted here through 2028, then in 2029, it will be moved to Japanese Wikisource when no longer copyright in Japan provided that the relevant law remains unchanged. Any comments or suggestions?--Jusjih 20:34, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

According to Ōmi Komaki, he died in 1952, so I don't understand why his works cannot be hosted on ja.ws if Japanese copyright law is 50 years pma. Otherwise, he is a good candidate to be hosted on Wikilivres. There is no Japanese works yet, but there are welcome there. Regards, Yann 21:15, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

That article contradicts itself. I have to further investigate whether he died in 1952 or 1978. If I cannot find the answer, I will err to 1978.--Jusjih 03:19, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Jusjih, I would support this as a good Idea, naturally, when there are no problems with the foundation (I suppose there are no ones). -jkb- 21:22, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

I do not expect problems with the Foundation whose server is in Florida, USA. At this time, I would like to report that Chinese Wikisource does not formally exclude pre-1923 Chinese works that are PD in the USA but still copyrighted in Greater China. To facilitate this discussion, I have added a new column "Pre-1923 works copyrighted at home" at Wikisource:Subdomain coordination. Please report the situation at other subdomains if you know the answers, so when we are to amend the instruction on adding new pages, we can better tell which works are to be posted here or at language subdomains.--Jusjih 03:19, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

I would like to hope as well there are no problems as we have some more texts like this on cs.source (having been deleted for some years). The question is what the Foundation says exactly. The US law is clear even for works published outside USA ([7]). But what about the second condition of the Foundation licensing policy - must the work be PD in the country where it was published or must it be PD in the subdomain according to the dedication of the work? I mean this: a Czech work, PD in the USA, but not PD in the Czech Republic, cannot be published in the cs.source as it is not free in the Czech Republic; but if published in the oldwikisource so it is not clear whom it is dedicated to (even if in Czech language). If this construction suits so OK. But I cannot find the actual text of the licensing policy of the Foundation in this question. -jkb- 08:19, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

After reviewing the foundation:Resolution:Licensing_policy, the Exemption Doctrine Policy involves a "project-specific policy, in accordance with United States law and the law of countries where the project content is predominantly accessed". Based on this, if any language subdomains feel uncomfortable hosting pre-1923 works that are still copyrighted in their home countries, they may make local policies forbidding them. This multilingual site has about 7000 articles. I am unsure where users are from, but hosting pre-1923 works that are still copyrighted in their home countries right here should not have major problems if we make clear copyright tags.--Jusjih 19:58, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

This is fine with me. Yann 22:03, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Right this was my question (and intention). Texts e.g. on the cs.source could be predominantly accessed vy Czech people. But text on the multi.source must not necessarily be dedicated to a special country, just like Czech emigree literature in the USA was not necessarilly dedicated to people living in Czechoslovakia but to emigrees, for instance. I think we could live with this. Sure, special tags should be used. -jkb- 22:21, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

To make a specific copyright tag, I would like to suggest importing w:Template:PD-US-1923-abroad. I will import when everything is in order. Language subdomains that allow pre-1923 works still copyrighted at home should also consider this kind of template. I will prepare doing so on Chinese Wikisource where visitors include Chinese living in Greater China and overseas. Even English Wikisource should consider this template to distinguish American and non-American works while most countries do not have pre-1923 public domain.--Jusjih 02:37, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

A template like that is very OK. I would only suggest that the text should be not only English but also in that language beeing concerned. The second point will be a decision how to categorize such pages (as all pages should be in a category. A language category is not sufficient here as we use language catgories for languages only we host here as whole. I would suggest to make a general category for these pages like e.g. Category:1923 (that could be categorized in Category:Languages), and then we could habe subcategories like Category:Japanese (1923), Czech (1923) etc. -jkb- 09:49, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Without objections here, I have imported Template:PD-US-1923-abroad with formatting to fit Wikisource. Please feel free to improve it including adding translations as needed. I am not planning to translate it into Chinese while Chinese Wikisource does not exclude pre-1923 works still copyrighted in Greater China. —unsigned comment by Jusjih (talk) 19:36, 3 August 2008.

I added a Czech translation to it (here); there is also a template with similar purpose for use in the subdomain here. What about the suggested categorisation? -jkb- 11:39, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I suggest bringing s:en:Category:Public domain in the United States. I am no admin on Czech Wikisource, so if you have any deleted Czech texts to be brought here, please undelete them temporarily and tell me, so I can import them.--Jusjih 22:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Wait. As English Wikisource already uses template codes of copyright tags in categories, these would be much more specific, such as PD-US-1923-abroad, PD-US-1923-abroad/CS, and PD-US-1923-abroad/VEC. This way will allow readers to identify which languages affected works are written in.--Jusjih 00:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Sure, language specific categories are good, see my idea above. This not only for the readers, but for the the users here as well to find texts that should be imported beck to the subdomain after it has got PD there as well.

Thanks for your offer to import our texts. But I think I will ask per bugzilla to enable for me the transwiki import at least from cs.source to multi.source and also vice versa, i.e. in both directions, as it will be helpfull in the future. Regards, -jkb- 08:14, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

To reflect the outcome of this discussion, I just updated MediaWiki:Newarticletext. For any administrator here, please improve the description as needed.--Jusjih 01:31, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

The existing templates (see Template talk:PD-US-1923-abroad) include the categories for CS, ZH and VEC, which are categorized in Category:PD-US-1923-abroad, and this one is categorized in Category:Languages as the first one. -jkb- 13:36, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Errata policy

Hi, does Wikisource have a policy for adding errata, that is identifying errors in the original?

For example, http://de.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Seite:Doppl_10.jpg&oldid=399660 contains an error in a mathematical formula. I imagine I could identify that by inserting ^{[Err 1]}, and down at the page an Errata-section with

1. ↑ x = (Q + α)/a should be: (a + α)/a

. Ceinturion 10:03, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

I am afraid you have to contact the project itself - if the project handle errata so they would have different kinds to do so. -jkb- 11:22, 4 August 2008 (UTC) (corr., I was not logged in)

Yeah, that sort of thing is different from project to project. In the works I've added to German Wikisource, I've made footnotes that say "Sic" and then supply the correct word. However, I've noticed that the works displayed prominently on their front page do it the other way around: the correction is made in the main body of the text, and a footnote is added saying "Vorlage: XXX" (where XXX is the mistaken word of the original). —Angr 16:00, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I made the correction in the text, added a footnote "korrigiert, im Druck x = (Q + α)/a", and it appears at the end in a section named "Anmerkungen (Wikisource)" Ceinturion 15:03, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I think it will be OK. But, nevertheless, I like your Idea with <ref group=Err>, I think I will install something like that in cs.source soon. Regards. -jkb- 15:18, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Source text in multiple languages

I have found some source text which is written in both English and Malay (like a bilingual dictionary or a foreign language introduction). These texts are intended for English speaking audience, but there is substantial amount of Malay in them. Is it okay if I label these texts under Malay, and not giving it to the English Wikisource, provided that there are very few public domain Malay texts? Thanks. Aviator 12:57, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

This is a problem that has not been solved yet. More than one year ago I created the category Category:Multilingual as I did not know what to do with these pages - see Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/Jan 2007 - Dec 2007#category multilingual. But we have no guideline, that is the problem. It seems that in some cases it make sense - or it could make sense - to have a page with some more translations, but where is the limit? We surely do not want to host pages like Karl May's Vinetou in 54 languages. My multilingual category was just a first step and a semi solution in a situation without any rules. We should have some proposals to this point. -jkb- 14:46, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

There is one work that is truly multilingual: s:de:Index:Zwei-Plus-Vier-Vertrag.djvu and s:en:Index:Zwei-Plus-Vier-Vertrag.djvu (also Russian and French) For this work, we have transcribed the pages only on the appropriate subdomain.

We have a case of a English language introduction and footnotes. see s:en:Index:The New Testament in the original Greek - 1881.djvu. Because this is of significant value even without the English, it has been placed onto el to serve as a set of pagescans for the Greek New Testament. We have already found one error in the text that was in the text of Matthew. I do not know if we should transcribe the main text of this also onto the English Wikisource, and we have yet to decide how to handle the footnotes.

In order to give a better opinion, we would need to know which texts it is. John Vandenberg 10:52, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Some of the works I'm interested in:

• [8]: Malay language introduction (written in English, but contains substantial amount of Malay)
• [9]: English-Malay dictionary

Aviator 13:02, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I think that A manual of the Malay language. With an introductory sketch of the Sanskrit element in Malay belongs on English Wikisource, and A vocabulary of the English and Malay languages, in the Roman and Arabic character could go on either English or Malay project. (btw there is a table of contents on leaf 113). As far as I know, proper transcription projects have not been enabled here on wikisource.org. John Vandenberg 10:37, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Can you import some texts from it?

Hi, on it.ws there are some texts written in Venetian language... since the vast majority of Venetian texts (more than 1000 pages) is hosted here on oldwiki, is it possible to import the following pages from it, in order to have all Venetian works in the same place? I asked on it.ws, and they agree with the proposal. These are the pages:

1. s:it:Canto di pesca
2. s:it:Peregrinazioni lagunari
3. s:it:E na nana nana nana te canto
4. s:it:I piemontesi son partiti
5. s:it:Nana bobò
6. s:it:Povere filandine
7. s:it:De Babilonia civitate infernali
8. s:it:De Ierusalem celesti